From: "Westmerian" <steve@westmerian.freeserve.nOt>
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 00:00:53 -0000
Subject: Re: Electronic Punching - BOF Apathy
Message-Id: <78oafj$j2u$1@news6.svr.pol.co.uk>
Dicky wrote in message <36ae052a.0@newsread3.dircon.co.uk>...
<snip>
>For capital equipment purchase to be justified it should certainly be
>required to demonstrate the following benefits as an absolute minimum.
>
> 1:Savings in time
> 2:Reduction in unit costs
> 3:Improvements in quality
>
>No 1 above implies results processing while No 2 should make events cheaper
>to enter and No 3 should ensure mistake free data processing.
>
>Overall benefits should include a reduction in costs when mounting an event
>which, one assumes, includes using less labour overall both in pre and
>actual race day activity.
>
>Can anyone on here show these, or any other benefits that would be visible
>to the competitor.
..........or the volunteer helper!
Having spent several hours on 'results processing' for a Badge event in
November and a colour-coded last Sunday, I'm prepared to give any electronic
system a try.
It is extremely time consuming to manually inspect control cards for
validity - and there's always some uncertainty with light punching, partial
punching, double punching, ripped cards etc.
The other problem is deciphering the competitor name/class/club from a
combination of card/stub/entry list.
Charging my time, and that of colleagues, at my 'Sunday and evenings'
professional rate would put the costs into hundreds of pounds - we're doing
it for free but may not if it could be avoided by a reasonable outlay.
Everyone's idea of what is reasonable will be different of course.
--
Steve Brockbank
Croydon Orienteering Club
Provisional results of CROC's event at Chelwood on 24/01/99 can be found at:
http://www.croydonoc.freeserve.co.uk/chres.htm
From: "Jim LEWIS" <jimlewis@voyager.co.nz>
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 16:48:47 +1300
Subject: OCAD laser-printing query
Message-Id: <01be4a71$1c21f560$LocalHost@pc>
I tried out a new Copy Shop today to see if I could get maps printed in my
town rather than sending them to another town (usually by email attachment)
to get printed.
The EPS map file was imported into Adobe Photoshop 4.0 and when printed was
a diabolical mess. Essentially it was very fuzzy (both text and graphics).
The copier was a Ricoh (sorry I don't know the model number), and printed at
400 dpi (which I thought was low, but was told that this equates quite well
to a high resolution ink-jet copier). The map had a chequer-board
background on the monitor, but this wasn't printed.
I expected the colours not to be quite right, so my map was a test sheet
consisting of a range of CMYK values using both Canon and Xerox laser-copier
settings which have been successful in the past. Results were disappointing
to say the least. All detail was lost : marshes, vertical green stripe
(both 407 and 409), and the dots in the open land with scattered trees (402)
and Rough Open land with scattered trees (404).
Has anybody had a similar experience using Adobe Photoshop? If so, can you
give me a solution please if you have it. Neither the operator or I were
very familiar with the software, which didn't help. The file size seemed to
jump from 435 KB in EPS format to around 3MB when imported into Adobe
Photoshop. In OCD format it was 159 kB.
I note Hans refers to PageMaker and XPress as desktop programs to import the
EPS files into in the OCAD manual, but my printer hasn't got these.
Jim Lewis
53 Norman Smith Street
Taupo 2730, New Zealand
Telephone/Fax: +64 7 378 9289
From: "Philip Hawkes-Teeter" <philht@poboxes.com>
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 22:13:44 -0500
Subject: Weekend Results and Garnet Hill
Message-Id: <000201be4a6c$36640300$9123adce@crc3.concentric.net>
The results from this past weekend's ESG Ski-O events have been tabulated
and the updated standings are now posted on the EMPO ESG web site. Despite
the "iffy" weather, both events were held, had snow, and produced good races
and lots of fun. In case you haven't bookmarked it, the standings are at:
http://www.cs.brown.edu/~ssb/empo/ski-o/standings.html
Also, it should be noted that we have received word that the final decision
on the ESG venue has been made, and unfortunately it is back to Mt. Van
Hovenberg once again, at the insistence of the ESG Office. Not that we
haven't, or can't, have fun there, but someplace fresher would have been
nice. Oh well. Hopefully we can get onto the N side this year (we just have
to avoid the guns of those Biath folks).
Meanwhile, all is GO! for the event at Garnet Hill this Saturday. They still
have all 55k open, with the weather looking like a little fresh snow coming
each night. The approximate course distances are:
Male Open, Male Masters: (Blue) 12.7k
Female Open, Male Scholastic: (Red) 9.7k
Female Masters, Female Scholastic: (Green) 6.7k
Bill Koch kids and Novices (non-ESG): (Yellow) 3.1k
Unlike orienteering-on-foot, these distances are measured by the shortest
skiable (trail) route. And remember, at Garnet Hill these are 99% well
groomed and wide trails, so I would expect fast times.
-Phil Hawkes-Teeter
NB: Don't pay the trail fee at the regular registration desk. Pay me (or Sue
or some EMPO person running registration) and you'll get event entry plus
your trail pass.
From: "Malcolm Campbell" <xbo76@dial.pipex.com>
Date: 27 Jan 1999 22:44:05 GMT
Subject: Re: RE>NE events, UK Cup and People at BOF
Message-Id: <01be4a46$03b65640$b15795c1@default>
The problem with the fixture list is that one never knows from year to year
when the various major events are going to happen, apart from JK & Scottish
(& the White Rose!).
If our National Events were always on the same weekends each year, clubs
could then bid for those dates. Some of these NE's would be nominated
routinely (the same ones each year) as events with a particular interest
for elite competitors (March to June) and could be put forward as WRE's or
UK Cup races or both.
The Senior Home International, if it is to have any meaning at all (which
it currently doesn't) should also be on a fixed weekend each year during
the elite build up phase. The major international races (Spring Cup,
O-Festivalen, Tio Mila, Jukola O Ringen etc) are all on cyclic dates, so
it's relatively easy to take these into account when selecting UK Cup &
WRE's. It might create a few problems where access to a particular area is
extremely date specific, but the loss of the odd event seems a price worth
paying for bringing a semblance of order to the chaos of British fixtures.
I mean - everyone knows when Manchester United will be playing someone in
the FA Cup Final............?!
Malcolm Campbell
From: "Malcolm Campbell" <xbo76@dial.pipex.com>
Date: 27 Jan 1999 22:10:22 GMT
Subject: Re: Electronic Punching - BOF Apathy
Message-Id: <01be4a41$787648a0$b15795c1@default>
Phil Jenkins says:
> The purpose of BOF is to promote and develop orienteering in BRITAIN and
yet
> when it comes to make any critical decisions it puts the onus back to
it's
> members.
For once I find myself in agreement with BOF - it's vital that both systems
(EMIT & SportIDENT) are kept in the frame in order to prevent a monopoly
situation developing to the detriment of prices, development and
innovation.
Malcolm Campbell
NWOA
From: "Duncan Taylor" <DuncanTaylor@seaville.freeserve.co.uk>
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 21:22:58 -0000
Subject: WCOC current Night League positions
Message-Id: <78o02q$crl$1@news8.svr.pol.co.uk>
WCOC Winter 1998/99 Night League - Short Course
Pos Name Age No. Tot.
1 Andy Warner M40 7 137
2 Allan McKinley M21 7 118
3 Don Scarrott M70 7 113
4 Syd Thomas M45 7 107
5 Tony Pennick M50 5 76
6 Sam Perry W21 4 75
7 Steve Steele M35 4 72
8 Mike Harbron M55 4 70
9 Susan Jackson W14 4 69
10 Steve Sullivan M50 4 57
11 Pete Radford M50 2 30
12 Barbara Nelson W40 1 13
13 Debbie Thompson 1 11
14 Val Sullivan W50 1 11
15 Debbie Watson 1 10
WCOC Winter 1998/99 Night League - Long Course
Pos Name Age No. Tot.
1 Richard Jackson M16 8 156
2 Roger Jackson M50 9 155
3 Chris Pollitt M35 8 146
4 Dick Warner M45 8 143
5 Duncan Taylor M40 7 111
6 Simon Maytum M21 8 110
7 Dave Downes M40 7 102
8 Peter Atkinson M45 6 80
9 Chris Emerson M40 4 64
10 Pete Nelson M40 3 52
11 Tony Brand-Barker M40 3 42
12 Walter Harrison M35 3 40
13 Nick Moore M40 3 38
14 Mark Todd M35 3 37
15 Rob Holder M40 1 10
From: Douglas Henderson <henderson@harthope.demon.co.uk>
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 20:17:36 +0000
Subject: BL Gelt Woods (UK)
Message-Id: <cr8m2BAgR3r2Ewo3@harthope.demon.co.uk>
Colour coded event at GR 519592 signed from A69 west of Brampton, yellow
to brown courses, registration 10am to 12 noon, organiser Bob Richardson
(tel 01434 381509) fron the flyer I picked up at Hamsterley ten days
ago.
Douglas Henderson (Roxburgh Reivers)
In article <27493.199901260908@shannon>, Bob.Johnson@durham.ac.uk writes
>I've a note that Borderliners has a (local?) event at Gelt Woods next
>Sunday (31 Jan) -- but I haven't seen a flyer and it's not on the BOF
>list. There doesn't seem to be a BL fixtures page.
>
>Maybe I was dreaming - but is it on? If so, can anyone give details?
>
>Thanks, Bob Johnson (NN)
>
--
Douglas Henderson
From: Jeff Hutchinson <jeffhutch@juno.com>
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 15:31:18 -0700
Subject: Re: USGS Digital Raster Graphic (DRG) Topo Map Exchange
Message-Id: <19990127.153550.-140717.1.JeffHutch@juno.com>
On Tue, 26 Jan 1999 15:54:02 GMT, jcsi-maps@pipeline.com (JCSI-MAPS)
wrote:
>We have established a Digital Raster Graphic (DRG) Exchange web site
>at: www.pipeline.com/~jcsi-maps/drgs
>
>We exchange DRGs for the entire United States. DRGs are scanned USGS
>topographic maps, and are commonly used with GIS and GPS tracking
>programs such as Ozi Explorer, Fugawi, and GPSy. Each DRG CD covers a
>one degree square area, and normally contains (for an inland area) 1
>1:250K map, 2 1:100K maps, and 64 1:24K maps. Each CD also contains
>viewing software.
>
>The web site contains coverage maps of what is currently available for
>exchange, as well as links to other sites. The coverage maps are
>updated weekly, with new coverage posted on Monday morning. If you
>don't have DRGs to exchange, but are interested in obtaining coverage,
>we offer one-degree DRGs at the original USGS price ($32) per CD.
Would we as orienteers be interested in such maps? They would make
horrible base maps, I would think? Anybody know about these?
BB,
Hutch
___________________________________________________________________
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From: David Rosen <david_rosen@compuserve.com>
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 16:32:02 -0500
Subject: Electronic Punching
Message-Id: <199901271632_MC2-683F-8D4C@compuserve.com>
Gelt Woods WILL be using Sport Ident Electronic punching on Sunday.
I have to tried to jot down the main advantages that come with use of
Electronic Punching. Of course it is difficult to do a meaningful
cos-benefit analysis, but I think the extra cost to the orienteer =
will be insignificant when compared to the other costs of =
the sport - shoes, clothing, travel, entry fees etc.
Here are my thoughts - most points apply equally to Sport Ident and Emit:=
ELECTRONIC PUNCHING ADVANTAGES:
1. Easy and fun to use, particularly for youngsters and older people who
have trouble with fiddly pin punches.
2. Positive feedback (a bleep and a light) tells you that you have punche=
d
OK.
3. Unlike pin punches, there is no worry about punching in the wrong box =
or
not punching hard enough - hence there is much less possibility of disput=
es
about whether a punch is valid or not.
4. The punch checks and the time calculations are done by the computer,
thus releasing results officials (who would have had to visually check th=
e
punching and do all the time calculations) to be used for other duties.
5. The results can be printed and displayed almost instantaneously.
Fast results processing improves safety by allowing the organiser to
instantly check who is still out on the course.
6. Each competitor=92s split times can be printed as soon as the competit=
or
finishes. This allows the competitors and their coaches to do much better=
post-race analysis to see where they went wrong and how they can improve.=
This significantly increases the interest and enjoyment of the sport for
all competitors. It allows commentators and journalists to analyse the
performances of the top competitors.
7. The software will detect and disqualify those who take controls in the=
wrong order. This means much better use can be made of small areas by
criss-crossing the courses.
8. At small events, competitors can use a punching start to start when th=
ey
want, thus reducing the number of start officials required.
Competitors can use a punching finish, thus guaranteeing that times are
accurate and reducing the number of finish officials required.
Apologies if the above is poorly formatted - blame Compuserve.
David Rosen
From: mikeminium@aol.com (Mikeminium)
Date: 27 Jan 1999 03:53:08 GMT
Subject: Re: Score events
Message-Id: <19990126225308.01081.00000245@ng-fs1.aol.com>
abcdefbeck@hotmail.com raises some interesting questions about score
courses.
I've seen score courses where all points were worth the same and also a
course where the close-in, easy points were worth the most and farther,
difficult ones worth less. This one was interesting in that it produced a much
narrower spread of results... the best orienteers still won, but beginners had
scores of 50% or more of the winners, as opposed to 10% or less for a typical
score event where the toughest points are worth more.
I like this method for introductory events with school groups because all
the kids can say "the winner got 900, I did pretty good with 600" instead of
"the winner got 900 and I only got 90." Of course, I'm interested in having as
many of the students as possible come back and try it again... a close race is
much more exciting for them.
By the way, the NorthEastern Ohio Orienteering Club has about a 50-50 mix
between traditional events and score courses on their schedule for this year.
I will be very interested in seeing their attendance numbers and the comments
of club members / participants. They seem to have had good success doing score
events in the past, so we'll see how they do with the score events as a major
part of their schedule.
[Their web site (and the sites for most other North American clubs) is
reachable from the map at http://www.us.orienteering.org]
Mike Minium
V P Program Development
U S Orienteering Federation
From: "Simon Errington" <simon@sdea.demon.co.uk>
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1999 21:08:12 -0000
Subject: Re: Calculating Distances
Message-Id: <917390622.14342.0.nnrp-12.9e985cdd@news.demon.co.uk>
Joie Seldon wrote in message <36AA53FC.F0E73B8E@worldnet.att.net>...
>Are there tools or methods available to help calculate distances from a
>map for curved, non-direct routes?
>
The "tool or method" you are looking for is called an orienteer.
Most orienteers when given a map will follow a curved, non-direct route. If
you teach them to pace count then you can ask them afterwards how far it
was.
On a similar theme, when I started orienteering way back in the time before
even rec.sport.orienteering
it was common to explain to beginners that an orienteering course of 5
kilometres was roughly equivalent to running a road race of 5 miles. I
haven't heard this used for a long time, but it still seems quite accurate
to me.
Simon Errington
London OK
From: Kearney <aw144@lafn.org>
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 11:30:58 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Re: Calculating Distances
Message-Id: <l03130305b2d495f5c65d@[192.168.18.43]>
>From: Joe Scarborough <joedscar@crl.com>
>. In the
steep Bay Area terrain, for example, it is not unusual to compare a 5k
orienteering course to a flat trail run of well over five miles, in terms
of effort.
Now you tell me:-))
>>>>>>>>>>
Olive Kearney
Never lost, just misguided
Los Angeles - 34N, 118W, 13E
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> SCONET >>>>>>>>>>>>>
Orienteering in Sunny Southern California
PLUS: combined West Coast schedules and clubs
http://www.geocities.com/yosemite/trails/4040
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
From: Kearney <aw144@lafn.org>
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 11:30:54 -0800 (PST)
Subject: RE: Shout out
Message-Id: <l03130304b2d4952e97a2@[192.168.18.43]>
I don't know, but ULOS at first glance seemed more like U-LOST?
joking joking
-- Olive
>>>>>>>>>>
Olive Kearney
Never lost, just misguided
Los Angeles - 34N, 118W, 13E
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> SCONET >>>>>>>>>>>>>
Orienteering in Sunny Southern California
PLUS: combined West Coast schedules and clubs
http://www.geocities.com/yosemite/trails/4040
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
From: Scott Donald <sdonald@wkpowerlink.com>
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 09:30:12 -0800
Subject: Re: Calculating Distances
Message-Id: <E105Yn5-0005tg-00@dewey.mindlink.net>
At 11:18 AM 99/01/26 -0800, you wrote:
>
>Scott-
>
>If the question is, "What is the linear distance added by the ups and
>downs of hills (a line in three dimensions) vs the actual route as shown
>on the map (two dimensions)?" the mathematical answer would be very
>little, under 1%, whether you go straight up the slope or not.
>
>I think we are together so far. I would agree with your 10% figure also if
>you are including the element of added effort. To answer the question,
>"What is the effective distance in terms of effort added by climb?" There
>is more than one rule of thumb. A common one is: add ten meters to the
>distance for every meter climbed. I would like to know of any studies
>that have been done on this.
I think there was some work done on this by the IOF a long time ago. As the
effect of elevation gain is strongly dependent on the individual, there is
no solid answer. A 10X multipler seems high to me for most elite persons and
the elevation gain of a particular climb. BUT, it is the number commonly
used, so the consensus is that it is a reasonable number.
>A third, broader, question, which could be even more important to
>newcomers to the sport is, "What is the overall effective distance of an
>orienteering course?" The answer can be very subjective and involve many
>variables, including the abilities and fitness of the competitor. In the
>steep Bay Area terrain, for example, it is not unusual to compare a 5k
>orienteering course to a flat trail run of well over five miles, in terms
>of effort.
As the distance run by an individual is, to say the least, individualistic,
for consistency we measure the straight line distances when publicizing
courses. When I run in an area, I remember it as a number, say 1.20. This
means for each Km of published course length, I run 1.20 Km (and I use "run"
in a very broad sense). The map near Walnut Grove, CA, I classify as 1.2
down hill, 1.5 uphill and 2.0 across a slope for any distance :-}. I average
it to about 1.6 for a typical green course. The CHARTRAND CREEK map (near
Merritt, BC - the site of the 1998 Canadian Short Course) I rate at 1.08,
and Wyoming at 1.04 to 1.08, depending on the map. Another person's rating
will differ.
This system seems to give me an accurate measure of how long it will take me
to complete the course. Your 5 mile/5 Km is near 1.6.
Scott
====================================================================
SANDS Design
Graphic Arts and Control Systems
303 845 Victoria Trail, BC V1R 3T3
(250)364-2332 sdonald@wkpowerlink.com
====================================================================
From: a.finch@lancaster.ac.uk (Alex Finch)
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 16:00:48 GMT
Subject: ULOS
Message-Id: <99012716004728@lavhep.lancs.ac.uk>
Dear Tapio,
Thanks for the interesting translation of ULOS, I'll pass it on to the current
club members. It stands for University of Lancaster Orienteering Society. Back
in the 60s and '70s the club was called Lunienteers, but some time in the '80s
"Thatcher's children" changed it to ULOS, which I always thought was much less
exciting, but now I know different. There was a club for ex-members for a
time called SLUGO (Society of Lancaster University Graduate Orienteers), not
sure if it is still going though.
While on the subject of name changes you may be interested to know that
S.R.O.C. (England's oldest Orienteering club) has voted to keep the name the
same, despite the fact that it is a poor description of our catchment area
now.
Alex Finch
(20 years at Lancaster University and going strong...)
(for more info see http://www.lancs.ac.uk/)
From: Torgny Ottosson <Torgny.Ottosson@ped.gu.se>
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 15:33:07 +0100
Subject: Re: Calculating Distances
Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19990127153307.007db100@ped.gu.se>
Joe Scarborough wrote:
>I think we are together so far. I would agree with your 10% figure also if
>you are including the element of added effort. To answer the question,
>"What is the effective distance in terms of effort added by climb?" There
>is more than one rule of thumb. A common one is: add ten meters to the
>distance for every meter climbed. I would like to know of any studies
>that have been done on this.
>
In the next issue of Scientific Journal of Orienteering (scheduled for
distribution in March) there will be an article "Route Choice and an
Empirical Basis for the Equivalence Between Climb and Distance" by Philip
Scarf. Abstract:
We look at data on U.K. fell running records in order
to investigate the equivalence between climb and
distance. The analysis points to a "1to8" rule for
male athletes, whereby 125m of climb is equivalent to
a flat distance of 1 km, and a "1to10" rule for
female athletes. These rules can be used in decision
making about alternative routes, and to compare
courses of differing distance and climb.
Torgny Ottosson
Editor
From: "Rafael A. Gutierrez" <rafgut@teleport.com>
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1999 23:27:56 -0800
Subject: Re: Does anyone have an OCAD cross reference table to share?
Message-Id: <36AEBFFC.21685055@teleport.com>
For those with OCAD, the following CRT file is available for DXF file
transfers:
http://www.teleport.com/~rafgut/others/crt.htm
Hope this helps!
Rafael Gutierrez
rafgut@teleport.com
Portland, OR USA
From: "Joel Rauschenbach" <ocingearhead@ocin.us.orienteering.org>
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1999 20:16:55 -0500
Subject: Re: Score events
Message-Id: <pStr2.554$D2.622@news2>
>Is this the best way to plan them? Why do we need different scores for
>different controls?
Of course, the gives reason to get the controls far out, to get more points.
Controls close to the finish should be worth low points, and the farther you
go out the higher the point value of controls, also in some score of events,
the BLUE / RED level controls are worth more points too.
>