From: John Fallows <JohnFallows@compuserve.com> Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1999 11:57:17 -0400 Subject: Harvester Trophy 11/12th September. Message-ID: <199908271157_MC2-829F-18F@compuserve.com>
Roll up, roll up! Entries closed officially last week but the overprint run will allow us another 14 teams on the 'A' course and 6 on the 'B' course. Should our palms be crossed with silver, the planner(s) will only be too glad to manually overprint some extra maps. If your club wants to enter a team (or indeed another team) please e-mail me first (to let me know your entry is in the post) at JohnFallows@Compuserve.com and then send the entry in (entry form on NGOC's page at http://www.rain-end.demon.co.uk John Fallows NGOC P.S. NGOC is also putting on a score event on Sunday morning starting at 11am.
From: Mark Sylvester <msylvest@spin.it> Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1999 09:35:40 +0200 Subject: Re: Sport Ident E-Cards Message-Id: <Version.32.19990827091924.010871a0@mail.spin.it>
It might be interesting to find out how they handled this at the Swiss 6 Days this year. People who had their own SportIdent e-cards were simply invited to use them, while those who needed to have one on loan picked one up (randomly distributed) at the start on day 1. Our (chest) numbers were marked with a big felt-tip to indicate that we had received one. As far as I could tell, the link between competitor number and e-card number was entered at the finish on day 1. As the competitor's race data was downloaded, the competitor's number was entered too. So far in Italian competition using SportIdent we have had e-cards on loan, handed out in the package with race information and chest numbers etc, already assigned by competitor. It is not clear how one would cope with people having their own e-cards. If in fact it's not necessary to have them pre-assigned then things seem to get simpler. Terminology: It's clear that there is some problem about what to call the little thing in English. Is "e-card" now the usual term in UK orienteering? At Langenthal (days 1-3 of the Swiss 6) they called it a "badge" in English translation (unfortunately misspelt as "batch", which confused somewhat), while a different term which I cannot remember was used at Ulrichen (days 4-6). In Italian it's called a brichetta (briquette). Names thus follow either shape or function, and if function then different aspects of function. I rather like "e-card". Mark At 02:54 27/08/99 -0400, David Rosen wrote: >I am still getting a lot of people asking me why >in many families, only some of them were allowed > to run with their own e-card at Highland 99. > >I e-mailed the database of E-card owners to >the Highland 99 organisers several months >beforehand, and then sent regular new >versions as more e-cards were sold. The >database holds the e-card number against >the owner's BOF number. > >As I understand it, (no doubt someone will >correct me if I'm wrong), the problem >stemmed from the fact that BOF numbers were >not requested on the Highland 99 entry form. >(Of course, when the entry form was printed, >the organisers had not yet decided to use >electronic punching). So in order to make a >link to my database, BOF numbers were >manually added to the entry forms. > >Unfortunately, in many cases only one BOF >number was put on the entry form - instead >of one for each entrant. It was only a few days >before the event started that the first attempt >was made to transfer the owned e-card >numbers to the Highland 99 database. At >that point, it was too late to correct the problem. > >Full marks to the Highland 99 organisers for >handling this so well by loaning such people >an e-card without charge. And if you have your >own e-card, you can be pretty certain that your >e-card number is on the National database. >(In fact there are one or two e-cards which I know >have slipped through unregistered, usually >because when I received details for adding to >the database, the e-card number was missing! >In those cases I tried to ring up the person >concerned but was not always successful). > >Following sales at Highland 99, there are now >1575 BOF members with their own SportIdent >e-card. Very soon, BOF will be taking over the >database from me - your e-card number will >simply be a new field on the BOF database. >And it will appear on your annual renewal >form to allow you to check it. > >P.S. The excellent split time print-outs printed >for days 2,3,4 and 5 of Highland 99 were produced >by Mats Troeng's SplitVision software. They showed >position on each leg and the cumulative position. >The software can be purchased from http://come.to/splitvision. >As well as the results table, it allows >you to produce every conceivable graph >at the touch of a button. Splits can be loaded into >the package either directly off those displayed on the >web (use View Source on your Browser) or can be >loaded in from the SportIdent OLEinzel software. > >David Rosen > Mark Sylvester United World College of the Adriatic 34013 Duino TS Italy. msylvest@spin.it tel: +39 040 3739 255
From: "Andrew Kelly" <andrewk@dial.pipex.com> Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1999 10:32:11 +0100 Subject: Re: Media coverage and WC99 Message-ID: <003a01bef071$3e5e7120$fa88bc3e@default>
Simon Beck wrote: > >INTERESTING POINT, THIS LAST ONE, I WONDER HOW DEVON OC FEELS ABOUT >THIS, DEVON OC WAS FORMED BY AMALGAMATING 6 SMALL CLUBS WHO FELT THEY >COULD OPERATE MORE EFFECTIVELY AS A LARGE UNIT. MAYBE YOU WANT LARGE >CLUBS FOR HOLDING BADGE EVENTS ETC AND SMALL UNITS FOR CATI EVENTS. I have long argued that larger events should be organised by clubs co-operating together. National events, in particular, should be organised by associations, not by individual clubs. Badge events could be (and have been occasionally) organised by 2-3 clubs working together. The argument that more clubs are unviable because that means twice as many chairs, secretaries, treasurers etc, and you can't get people to do the job to my mind can be answered by the argument that most club administrators are currently overworked because their club is trying to do too much over too wide an area. Spreading the work/burden is one of the ways of tackling this. Anyway, plenty of smaller clubs have amply demonstrated that you don't need to be putting badge (or higher) events on to be thoroughly successful as a local club - indeed the biggest howls about money problems seem to come from those clubs who rely on badge/national events for income - too many eggs in one basket? A strong network of clubs close together, can also do much to enable local inter-club competition, which may not appeal to seniors, but has been shown to appeal more to young people. At present all our inter-club competition is operated at national or association level, partly because there aren't sufficient teams to operate on a more local basis - but that means excessive travel (which is one of the reasons Compass Sport Cup was 'streamlined') Without wishing to pick on Devon, but as Simon highlights their particular instance: along with most of the country's bigger clubs, their membership reflects the trend I previously quoted, falling at above the national average.
From: guypolsen@aol.com (GuyPOlsen) Date: 27 Aug 1999 03:07:25 GMT Subject: Re: The future of O Message-Id: <19990826230725.25874.00003409@ngol01.aol.com>
In article <37C59395.CC6DA1E@yahoo.co.uk>, Ivan O'Map <ivanomap@yahoo.co.uk> wrote: >Orienteering is NEVER going to take off and be incredibly popular. Who says it has to? >It is going to continue its present decline and peter out completely in >about 2030 when today's M & W40's are too old. What decline? >It will then take its place alongside pigeon fancying, keeping ferrets, trainspotting >and probably fox-hunting by then. You know its going to happen. Only if people like you let it happen...
From: simonbeck6219@my-deja.com Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1999 02:17:01 GMT Subject: Does anyone have an area we can use for the oxford versus cambidge O-match? Message-Id: <7q4sek$mff$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
I have volunteered ato organise the oxford versus cambridge (UK) match, which usually takes place at the end of term, about mid march. Typically, things go wrong when i get near them, and it would just be year 2000, when I have to organise it, that the terms don't end the same weekend. So the likely result is to have it in mid term. Jan 29 2000 to Mar 11 2000. Hopefully I can get a date that doesn't clash with anything our peope will want to attend. Does anyone know where I can get fixtures information beyond the end of 1999 other than by pestering the national fixtures secretary? Also would any clubs within,say, 100 miles of Oxford be willing to let us use one of their areas? Usually this event involves some 50 competitors plus any locals who turn up for a run, or maybe we might have this the day before someone's badge event, perhaps using the M21L and W21L courses. So you'd get some of the control hanging done for you, provided you could trust the cometitors not to disclose details of the courses, usually they're too inebriated or hungover to do so anyway. Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Share what you know. Learn what you don't.
From: David Rosen <david_rosen@compuserve.com> Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1999 02:54:43 -0400 Subject: Sport Ident E-Cards Message-ID: <199908270254_MC2-828E-8FE@compuserve.com>
I am still getting a lot of people asking me why in many families, only some of them were allowed to run with their own e-card at Highland 99. I e-mailed the database of E-card owners to the Highland 99 organisers several months beforehand, and then sent regular new versions as more e-cards were sold. The database holds the e-card number against the owner's BOF number. As I understand it, (no doubt someone will correct me if I'm wrong), the problem stemmed from the fact that BOF numbers were not requested on the Highland 99 entry form. (Of course, when the entry form was printed, the organisers had not yet decided to use electronic punching). So in order to make a link to my database, BOF numbers were manually added to the entry forms. Unfortunately, in many cases only one BOF number was put on the entry form - instead of one for each entrant. It was only a few days before the event started that the first attempt was made to transfer the owned e-card numbers to the Highland 99 database. At that point, it was too late to correct the problem. Full marks to the Highland 99 organisers for handling this so well by loaning such people an e-card without charge. And if you have your own e-card, you can be pretty certain that your e-card number is on the National database. (In fact there are one or two e-cards which I know have slipped through unregistered, usually because when I received details for adding to the database, the e-card number was missing! In those cases I tried to ring up the person concerned but was not always successful). Following sales at Highland 99, there are now 1575 BOF members with their own SportIdent e-card. Very soon, BOF will be taking over the database from me - your e-card number will simply be a new field on the BOF database. And it will appear on your annual renewal form to allow you to check it. P.S. The excellent split time print-outs printed for days 2,3,4 and 5 of Highland 99 were produced by Mats Troeng's SplitVision software. They showed position on each leg and the cumulative position. The software can be purchased from http://come.to/splitvision. As well as the results table, it allows you to produce every conceivable graph at the touch of a button. Splits can be loaded into the package either directly off those displayed on the web (use View Source on your Browser) or can be loaded in from the SportIdent OLEinzel software. David Rosen
From: simonbeck6219@my-deja.com Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1999 01:45:48 GMT Subject: Re: Media coverage and WC99 Message-Id: <7q4qk9$l83$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
In article <000001beeeff$9d457a80$2396bc3e@default>, "Andrew Kelly" <andrewk@dial.pipex.com> wrote: > Simon Beck wrote: > >One thing I would like to point out is that contrary to one message I > >read, O is not super healthy in Scandinavia. They're having the same > >problems as everyone else in attracting and retaining young adults. > >One does indeed wonder whether there will be any O in 30 years' time, > >but what are all the young people doing who used to do sport? Are > >they just spread out more over a greater number of activities, are > >they just too flabby and idle to do any sport, do they do sports that > >don't require aerobic effort, are they all sitting indoors playing > >computer games? Or is society polarizing into 2 classes: the workers > >and the tellywatchers? > > Its a combination of a number of things, some of which you touch on, some > of which is well documented, some gut feel. (You're right about the Scandas, > and what's interesting is that some of the work they are doing is stuff that > we've been doing for a while in the UK, so we're not quite as backward as > some people might think.) INDEED, I READ SOMETHING IN ONE OF THE NORWEGIAN PAPERS SUGGESTING NORWAY STARTS SOMETHING LIKE.... THEN A LOAD OF WAFFLE RE THE BOF BADGE SCHEME. > > However, in summary, there is more competition from competing attractions, > be they slothlike or active, than ever before. TOTALLY AGREE. Where orienteering doesn't > help itself in this country is the ongoing general inaccessibility of the > sport - not just the geography of events, but the ways clubs operate. To > bring more people (especially young) into the sport, we have to take it to > them, not get them to come to us. That means much more localisation of > clubs, their activites etc. NOT EASY TO DO IN PRACTICE BUT AGREE, COULD TRY HARDER WITHOUT MAKING AN EXCESSIVE AMOUNT OF EXTRA WORK. TOO MANY PEOPLE IN THE O SCENE CAN'T SEE THE WOODS FOR THE TREES AND OVERORGANISE THINGS FOR THE BEGINNERS. JUST A SIMPLE SMALL EASILY UNDERSTOOD MAP, TRY TO DO WITHOUT ADDITIONAL BITS OF PAPER (DESCRIPTIONS) ETC. KEEP IT SIMPLE FOR THE ORGANISERS AND RUNNERS AND HAVE MORE OF IT. MASS STARTS MAYBE FOR SIMPLICITY AND TO CUT THE TIME ORGANISERS ARE STUCK OUT ON THE FINISH, I LIKED WHAT I SAW IN THE USA IN THE MID 80S WHEN THERE IS HALF AN HOURS INSTRUCTION AT THE TIME EVERYONE IS SUPPOSED TO SHOW UP THEN THE EVENT STARTS. Many of our clubs cover entire counties (or even > more!), and spread their activities across the entire area. Some even > organise events outside their catchment, which may be productive short term > (e.g. financially) but does little for the club long term. It's no good > telling somebody (particularly a youngster) who has tried orienteering that > the next event accessible to them is 6 months down the line, and that in the > meantime there is no training/social activity etc. within easy reach at all. I AGREE, THERE ARE SOME PARTS OF THE UK WHERE IT'S PROBABLY A WASTE OF TIME TRYING TO GET O OFF THE GROUND AT ALL IN THE ABOVE CONTEXT > Equally, trying to spread ones activities evenly across the entire year can > also be counter-productive. I LIKED THE SCHEME IN THE BOF FIXTURES STRUCTURE WORKING PARTY REPORT IN THE EARLY 1980S, CRAM THE CATI SEASON INTO THE AUTUMN AND MAKE THIS THE OFF SEASON FOR SERIOUS O FOR EXPERTS. (ONLY TROUBLE IS, PEOPLE LIKE TERRY DOORIS HAVE DIFFICULTY SAVING THE REQUIRED MONEY TO COPE WITH THE INCREASED o EXPENDITURE THIS RESULTS IN DURING THE HIGH SEASON. AT LEAST THAT'S THE EXCUSE HE GAVE IN COMPASS SPORT FOR RETAINING THE STATUS QUO OF SPREADING OUT THE MAJOR EVENTS THROUGHOUT THE YEAR. PERHAPS THIS IS PART OF THE PROBLEM WITH GETTING A GOOD PROGRAM OF INTRUDUCTORY O ORGANISED) I DON'T MIND ORGANISEING CATE EVENTS BUT I DO MIND WHEN IT MEANS MISSING SOMETHING ELSE I WANT TO GO TO. > > People will travel, but only when hooked (and even then can and do get fed > up with it). > > All the experience of BOF's development officers and others points to the > fact that where activities are put on in a localised, focused way with good > support work, the results are very positive. Where membership is falling > off is where that is not being achieved. Only when we appreciate this more > fully will we start to see the move upwards into regional and national > competitions. > > It's surely no coincidence that whilst the largest English clubs generally > have the biggest membership losses, the smallest clubs are on the whole > actually growing. INTERESTING POINT, THIS LAST ONE, I WONDER HOW DEVON OC FEELS ABOUT THIS, DEVON OC WAS FORMED BY AMALGAMATING 6 SMALL CLUBS WHO FELT THEY COULD OPERATE MORE EFFECTIVELY AS A LARGE UNIT. MAYBE YOU WANT LARGE CLUBS FOR HOLDING BADGE EVENTS ETC AND SMALL UNITS FOR CATI EVENTS. > SIMOLN BECK (AFTER > Andrew Kelly) > > Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Share what you know. Learn what you don't.
From: simonbeck6219@my-deja.com Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1999 01:21:11 GMT Subject: Re: The future of O Message-Id: <7q4p60$k4k$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
In article <37C59395.CC6DA1E@yahoo.co.uk>, It > is going to continue its present decline and peter out completely in > about 2030 when today's M & W40's are too old. It will then take its > place alongside pigeon fancying, keeping ferrets, trainspotting and > probably fox-hunting by then. You know its going to happen. This is something I have wondered about, on balance I think it will attract just enough young people into it to keep going, and the family scene will also attract people. But it probably only in Scandinavia be really a popular sport, as all young enthousiasts will emigrate there if they can. But this could be totally wrong, some of the news coming out of China, maybe the developing world will contain more people of the level of affluence that seems to favor O. On the other hand there is talk of medical advances making it possible to live much longer.... will this apply to me I wonder, better sign up to Eddie Harwood's vitamin network marketing scheme asap and keep taking the antioxidants. But I wonder about some of these attempts to make O more popular, when the resulting event abandons so many of the principals I have always regarded as part of O, is theresult really O? O but not as we know it.... I hope there will emerge an O-leisure class that will basically do O full time until such time as they decide to get a job / start a family. A big enough group could travel the world and be self sufficient in O, taking in turns the organisation, control hanging etc., maybe even the mapping given GPS, automated mapping etc. What a way for 21 year olds to spend their 'year out' before joining the rat race. > Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Share what you know. Learn what you don't.
From: simonbeck6219@my-deja.com Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1999 01:28:49 GMT Subject: Re: PORNOGRAPHY ON THE O-NET Message-Id: <7q4pk7$kfm$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
In article <7pvask$oa0$1@nnrp1.deja.com>, simonbeck6219@my-deja.com wrote: > > > I'm just getting sick of these people who post messages on our website > trying to get us to visit their porn site. > > So sick, in fact, that I've posted a message about orienteering on the > alt.sex discussion group (in the sin city community, if that's how it > works) Well, yes, there it is on alt.sex. I don't know what else is on that newsgroup, but I guess I'll find out in due course, since I've subscribed to it (which might have been a silly thing to do, hopefully it can be undone. ) I'll have to extend this idea, it looks like a rich opportunity for some innuendo and other snide gags, another chapter for my wacky website perhaps. Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Share what you know. Learn what you don't.
From: "Joel R. Rauschenbach" <ocingearhead@ocin.us.orienteering.org> Date: Thu, 26 Aug 1999 19:34:19 -0400 Subject: Re: The future of O Message-Id: <4ckx3.712$34.43747@news.oh.voyager.net>
Where do you get your info. The sport alone in the USA is growing!!! In Europe, i dont think that orienteering will ever be non-existant, it is just too big over their. Us Juniors that are really into Orienteering help the sport grow. So i disagree 100% with your statement. -- =============== Joel Rauschenbach eMail: ocingearhead@ocin.us.orienteering.org Icq: 7135085 AIM: OCINxc Pager: OCINxc =============== Ivan O'Map <ivanomap@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message news:37C59395.CC6DA1E@yahoo.co.uk... > Orienteering is not a proper sport. It is a mickey mouse sport in which > 'map freaks' endeavour to keep fit by running around in muddy woods and > bad weather. Some people, the 'cartographically challenged', find > map-reading difficult and the less map-reading required of them the > better. Others are quite capable of navigating their car and that's all > there is to it. Mountaineers and ramblers are quite capable of > navigating but feel no urge to run around competitively. A lot of my > non-orienteering friends find its appeal quite incomprehensible. > Orienteering is NEVER going to take off and be incredibly popular. It > is going to continue its present decline and peter out completely in > about 2030 when today's M & W40's are too old. It will then take its > place alongside pigeon fancying, keeping ferrets, trainspotting and > probably fox-hunting by then. You know its going to happen.