From: nreentrant@aol.com (Nreentrant)
Date: 30 Aug 1999 23:08:03 GMT
Subject: 10%
Message-Id: <19990830190803.04910.00001288@ng-bx1.aol.com>
UK Orienteering
I struggle to see what the justification is for the 10% weighting for ranking
list calculation when taking part in a National Event.
To me the 10% devalues a ranking list attempting to reasonably (or as
reasonably as possible given that ranking lists are never perfect...) rank one
orienteer against another. This means that some orienteers, due to the fact
that they are prepared to travel the length and bredth of the country have a
relatively high figure, whereas those who don't travel have a low figure.
Surely the list should be trying to measure relative ability and not
preparedness(?) to travel - have I got this entirely wrong?
John Hawkins
From: "Paul B. Schmidt" <pschmidt@madriver.com>
Date: Mon, 30 Aug 1999 22:47:27 -0400
Subject: Nice publicity
Message-ID: <37CB423E.6E92509C@madriver.com>
OK... I blinked. Anybody already mention the fine article in the New
York Post about O? Check out B34 in August 27 for a nice read!! Enjoy!!
Paul B Schmidt
From: "Anders B. Xksenholt" <anders.oksenholt@skien.online.no>
Date: Mon, 30 Aug 1999 20:48:54 GMT
Subject: Re: electronic punching
Message-Id: <37CAEDE5.928F4F7B@skien.online.no>
julia minty wrote:
>
> Hello
> My name is Julia Minty. I recently competed for Australia in the Junior
> World Champs. At JWOC the Sport Ident system was used.
[snip.. about DSQ in JWOC]
> How can this sort of thing be overcome?
With an electronic punching system that "automaticly" makes a physical
backup (like the EMIT-system) and which doesn't have flashing lights and
noise sounds which may confuses many runners more than they help them
(especially if the light and sound suddenly stop working!).
Anders
--
***********************************************************************
* Anders B. Xksenholt * anders.oksenholt@skien.online.no *
* Sneltvedtkroken 19 * http://home.sol.no/~dagfinno/ *
* 3719 SKIEN * tlf: 35523455 | fax: 35531182 *
***********************************************************************
From: Gale Teschendorf <gdt@megsinet.net>
Date: Mon, 30 Aug 1999 14:03:53 -0500
Subject: Re: electronic punching
Message-Id: <37CAD598.39EE7317@megsinet.net>
Jerry N wrote:
> it seems that you must wait for the light on the Sportident control and
> ignore the beep.
Very unfair to blind Orienteers!
--
Gotta run,
Gale
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Soon
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From: gja@ph.ed.ac.uk (Graeme Ackland)
Date: 30 Aug 1999 18:39:48 GMT
Subject: Run the Harvester
Message-Id: <7qej5k$ck9$1@scotsman.ed.ac.uk>
Two weeks to go until the harvester, and no doubt many club officials are
wondering why club members won't sign up in multiples of five or seven.
Meanwhile others will be lamenting the fact that their club won't be going
or they can't get on the team.
Never fear. Entries supremo John Fallows has invited me to act as a clearing
house for a 'team O-net': If you want a run with like minded souls send
me an email stating leg preference and level of seriousness, and I'll group
you into fives or sevens and pass your names on to John. After that you're
on your own.
More details about courses online from
http://www.rain-end.demon.co.uk/HARVEST/HARVEST.htm
or hassle the planner at cpoole@lineone.net .
C'mon - we can win this thing!
Graeme
From: Peter Hind <peter@hindfam.demon.co.uk>
Date: Mon, 30 Aug 1999 07:38:49 +0100
Subject: Re: THE FUTURE OF ORIENTEERING AND MEDIA COVERAGE
Message-Id: <ZV4bfDA5biy3Ew39@hindfam.demon.co.uk>
In article <37c95cb8_1@newsread3.dircon.co.uk>, Dicky
<corbettr@dircon.co.uk> writes
Speaking as one of the "Great unwashed" could someone please take the
offensive Mr Corbett out and give him a good scrub?
>
--
Mike Hind
From: "Jerry N" <JerryN@junkbtinternet.com>
Date: Mon, 30 Aug 1999 16:43:10 +0100
Subject: Re: electronic punching
Message-Id: <7qei6b$nsf$1@uranium.btinternet.com>
Hi Julia
julia minty <jminty@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:19990830064603.85538.qmail@hotmail.com...
>snip<
> In the Short Qualification race, my Sport Ident card failed to
register that
> I had been at my 5th control. I was sure it should have registered
because I
> put it in the punch for about 1 second, like you're supposed to. But
it had
> no record, either in my card, or on the "back up" (the controller
went out
> to the control and checked).
> snip <
Sorry to hear of your disqualification but this is just the sort of
experience I am after in order to assess the risks of these devices.
Can you confirm that there was more than one SI-Station at the
control?
With the benefit of hindsight, it seems that you must wait for the
light on the Sportident control and ignore the beep. That does raise
the question as to whether the sound should be present. If there are
two or more SI-Stations at the control, then the beep sounds are
definitely misleading. Does anyone know if the sound can be turned
off?
Jerry Newcombe
From: "Dicky" <corbettr@dircon.co.uk>
Date: Mon, 30 Aug 1999 14:57:22 +0100
Subject: Re: THE FUTURE OF ORIENTEERING AND MEDIA COVERAGE
Message-Id: <37ca8e70_2@newsread3.dircon.co.uk>
Jimbo
I must reliably inform you that your nice little encounter with Pony Tail
Girl was nothing more than a missed sales opportunity on your part.
Had you but given a moments thought to the issues involved here then you
would have discovered that there was a much more fulfilling agenda to be
followed and it had nothing whatsoever to do with handing out maps and
control description sheets.
Jimbo! I am talking navigation in the forest of love my man. A much more
fulfilling activity that other one where all you have to do is to find a
funny looking thing hanging from a post and coloured white and red.
Clearly your perception of marketing opportunities is all at sea on this
one.
Richard Corbett.
Jim Huggins <jimh@softdisk.com> wrote in message
news:37CA5FBB.70FD9BE0@softdisk.com...
> Dicky wrote:
>
> > Jimbo
> > Before you engage in that kind of stuff - "know your market".
>
> Perhaps I do, or at least I think I do, and here it is.
>
> The Pony Tailed Girl
> by Jimbo
>
> I was handing out maps at the Tyler Champ meet start
> When the Pony Tailed Girl first I did see.
> She came over the hill with a flash and a dart
> And as she approached she let out an excited -- "Wheeeeee!".
>
> I told her to pick up the correct map, that the clue sheet was on the back
> side,
> And at the whistle her race would begin, then she could start life's
> adventure ride.
> The Pony Tailed Girl was eager to go, she was ready to begin her run
> And as she waited she excitedly said, "This is soooo much fun!".
>
> When the whistle blew she took off with a blast.
> The flapping pony tail was about all one could see.
> And when I thought my time with her had past,
> From the forest I heard that excited -- "Wheeeeee!".
From: Mark Sylvester <msylvest@spin.it>
Date: Mon, 30 Aug 1999 19:46:31 +0200
Subject: the nature of the sport
Message-Id: <199908301746.TAA04638@mail.spin.it>
Thought I'd share a little exchange I overheard today, which somehow adds
something to the ongoing discussion on this list as to the nature of our
sport.
We're starting the new school year, and this afternoon I had an
introduction and tryout for people wanting to find out about orienteering.
Turns out there is an experienced lad from Oslo among them. Afterwards I
took some of the keener people for a run in the hills above the village to
show them where they can go running.
Espen from Oslo is a very fit runner, and is cruising up the hill looking
at the scenery while others are puffing away. Chris from Chicago notices
this and asks "Hey Espen, what sports do you play?" Espen: "I don't *play*
any sports. I do orienteering and cross country ski."
Exactly right.
Mark
Mark Sylvester
United World College of the Adriatic
34013 Duino TS
Italy.
msylvest@spin.it
tel: +39 040 3739 255
From: sharston@rbg.informatik.tu-darmstadt.de (jSh)
Date: 30 Aug 1999 11:49:59 GMT
Subject: Re: electronic punching
Message-Id: <7qdr57$o6v$1@sun27.hrz.tu-darmstadt.de>
Hi Julia,
we've been using SportIdent here in Germany for quite some time now, and it's
been used on all sorts of events, including relay races, where the nature of
the game is that lots of people are at one control at the same time. Controls
where the organizer anticipated this were given two (or even more) "punching"
units. I recall only one or two events with any problems of your kind at all.
However they could all be solved when reading the backup-logs at the control.
So the question I still have is: What do you mean when you say you punched at
the same time: Where the two units or did you try to but the chips into the
same hole at the same time? The latter wil NOT work. I really don't mean that
to sound like an utterly daft question, just trying to help. The units have
to transfer data to the chips (that's what you carry around) individualy, so
they have to be put in one at a time.
Of course, if there where two units and you used one each, I can't say what
happened. However you say the unit the Swiss hirl used did beep, and yet she
too was DSQd ?! Now that _really_ sounds strange. Then there should have been
proof on both her chip and the control.
Just my thoughts ...
--
_o S i m o n H A R S T O N \\\|///
//\_. http://jsh.home.pages.de | ~ ~ |
_/\ Ask for PGP or Geek-Code (- 0 0 -)
/ |/| Hit any user to continue ---oOOo-(_)-oOOo---
From: Terje Mathisen <Terje.Mathisen@hda.hydro.com>
Date: Mon, 30 Aug 1999 14:04:50 +0200
Subject: Re: electronic punching
Message-Id: <37CA7362.D334F674@hda.hydro.com>
julia minty wrote:
>
> Hello
> My name is Julia Minty. I recently competed for Australia in the Junior
[sad story about unwarranted DSQ at JWOC snipped]
> How can this sort of thing be overcome?
Simple: This is exactly the situation the EMIT (Regnly) system was
required to handle, by having a manual backup tag. They could have made
the system a lot smaller if they didn't have to make room for the backup
tag, and the need for enough physical guides to force proper alignment
between tag and backup punch pin.
OTOH, if another electronic tag could actually get to a zero defect
rate, then there would be no need for a backup system, but I really
don't believe this will be possible, i.e. electronics can and do wear
out.
(Not to mention batteries!)
Terje
--
- <Terje.Mathisen@hda.hydro.com>
Using self-discipline, see http://www.eiffel.com/discipline
"almost all programming can be viewed as an exercise in caching"
From: John Kewley <kewley@cscs.ch>
Date: Mon, 30 Aug 1999 10:43:42 +0200
Subject: Re: Sport Ident E-Cards
Message-Id: <37CA443D.D5441E1F@cscs.ch>
Mark Sylvester wrote:
> Terminology: It's clear that there is some problem about what to call the
> little thing in English. Is "e-card" now the usual term in UK orienteering?
> At Langenthal (days 1-3 of the Swiss 6) they called it a "badge" in English
> translation (unfortunately misspelt as "batch", which confused somewhat),
> while a different term which I cannot remember was used at Ulrichen (days
> 4-6). In Italian it's called a brichetta (briquette). Names thus follow
> either shape or function, and if function then different aspects of
> function. I rather like "e-card".
In Ticino, they are called "chip" (pronounced "cheep"!), I have also heard
the term "brick". Then again having at least 5 names for things is
normal here in Switzerland!
[Mark: see you at the Italian Champs]
--
John M. Kewley Tel: +41 (0) 91 610 8351
Senior Research Scientist Fax: +41 (0) 91 610 8282
Centro Svizzero di Calcolo Scientifico mailto:kewley@cscs.ch
via Cantonale, CH-6928 Manno, Switzerland http://www.cscs.ch/~kewley/
From: Turku Rovaniemi <norienteer@juno.com>
Date: Mon, 30 Aug 1999 08:26:43 -0400
Subject: The future of various things
Message-ID: <19990830.082647.-3849053.0.norienteer@juno.com>
Ivan O'map wrote:
> It will then take its place alongside pigeon fancying, keeping ferrets,
>trainspotting and probably fox-hunting by then.
I'm not sure what the point is. I've never hunted foxes (either the
organic or electronic kind), but I do own a ferret, and my father
continues to derive great enjoyment from his pigeons. And although I've
never lived in Britain, I did begin trainspotting in visits there as a
child, and continue now to add to my list on visits as an adult. But
none of these keep me in physical shape.
Turku
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From: Norman Harris <norman.harris1@virgin.net>
Date: Fri, 30 Aug 1996 00:05:34 +0100
Subject: The future of O
Message-ID: <3226223E.1719@virgin.net>
Don't quite understand the reasoning of Ivan Omap. Whatever
non-orienteeers may think, those of us who presently enjoy the sport
clearly enjoy its unique attractions. Just why will like-minded folk in
future generations switch off? Apart from all the forests disappearing,
its hard to think of a reason.
From: Jim Huggins <jimh@softdisk.com>
Date: Mon, 30 Aug 1999 05:41:00 -0500
Subject: Re: THE FUTURE OF ORIENTEERING AND MEDIA COVERAGE
Message-ID: <37CA5FBB.70FD9BE0@softdisk.com>
Dicky wrote:
> Jimbo
> Before you engage in that kind of stuff - "know your market".
Perhaps I do, or at least I think I do, and here it is.
The Pony Tailed Girl
by Jimbo
I was handing out maps at the Tyler Champ meet start
When the Pony Tailed Girl first I did see.
She came over the hill with a flash and a dart
And as she approached she let out an excited -- "Wheeeeee!".
I told her to pick up the correct map, that the clue sheet was on the back
side,
And at the whistle her race would begin, then she could start life's
adventure ride.
The Pony Tailed Girl was eager to go, she was ready to begin her run
And as she waited she excitedly said, "This is soooo much fun!".
When the whistle blew she took off with a blast.
The flapping pony tail was about all one could see.
And when I thought my time with her had past,
From the forest I heard that excited -- "Wheeeeee!".
So what is the moral of this story you ask?
Why do you take up time with so little to gain or see?
Well, remember the Pony Tailed Girl and life's challenging task
And how you helped her prepare for it with an excited -- "Wheeeeee!".
>
>
> Richard Corbett
>
> Jim Huggins <jimh@softdisk.com> wrote in message
> news:37C93748.1B90CA52@softdisk.com...
>
> > The Body Chasing the Mind
> > by James Ebb Huggins, Jr.
> >
> > Looking for a sport that's a challenge, and lots of fun to do?
> > A sport that makes you feel good after you get through?
> > One that makes you think? One that makes you glow?
> > One that gives your imagination lots of room to grow?
> >
> > There is a sport that meets these needs. A sport that ALL can keep.
> > It's called Orienteering, and it's played in parks and forest deep.
> > It's a sport that makes you think, for many decisions you must make.
> > And if you get turned on to it, great rewards will be yours to take.
> >
> > It's wholesome for the body, the mind, and the soul.
> > The young can participate, as well as the old.
> > Recreational or competitive. Either one you can pursue.
> > For both will make your mind and body feel much like new.
> >
> > If it happens that Orienteering is the sport you select.
> > You'll find that the venture will help keep the gray matter erect.
> > The objective of the frolic is to keep the flesh from falling behind.
> > That's why Orienteering is designed to have the body chase the mind.
--
Jim Huggins, Prez
Ark-La-Tex Orienteering Society (ALTOS)
318-949-3601, Fax 530-327-6478
http://www.softdisk.com/customer/jimh/
"By God's grace, run the good race".
From: "julia minty" <jminty@hotmail.com>
Date: Sun, 29 Aug 1999 23:46:02 PDT
Subject: electronic punching
Message-ID: <19990830064603.85538.qmail@hotmail.com>
Hello
My name is Julia Minty. I recently competed for Australia in the Junior
World Champs. At JWOC the Sport Ident system was used. I found it very good
in that you were given your splits straight after you finished, and you
could also see everyone else's splits for that race within the next 24
hours. It also has advantages over the Regnly system because it makes a
sound and a light flashes when you place your card in the thing at the
control. But it also had some serious drawbacks for me.
In the Short Qualification race, my Sport Ident card failed to register that
I had been at my 5th control. I was sure it should have registered because I
put it in the punch for about 1 second, like you're supposed to. But it had
no record, either in my card, or on the "back up" (the controller went out
to the control and checked). Of course, I know I went to that control, and
so does a Swiss girl, who was at the control at exactly the same time as me.
This raises the question: was it because we both punched at the same time
that my card didn't register? Or was it that I heard the Swiss girl's card
beep, and thought it was mine. If this is the case, it is a potential
drawback of the system.
In any case, though there were people manning each control, they were not
considered sufficent verification to prove I had been to my 5th control, and
as such, I was disqualified. This was very frustrating for me, not only
because I knew I shouldn't be DSQed, but also because of the important
nature of the race.
It could be argued that I should have been more careful to note the light
flashing when I put my card in, but on the other hand, you can argue that
when you're racing hard and are in oxygen debt, and are thinking about your
next route choice, and so on, remembering to look for some little light
flashing can be difficult.
How can this sort of thing be overcome?
Regards,
Julia Minty
Australian National Junior Squad and member of the Australian JWOC team
1999.
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