From: gateway@acslink.net.au (Francesco Assenza)
Date: Wed, 1 Sep 1999 10:22:21 +1000
Subject: Re: Electronic Punching
Message-Id: <m11LyAP-000aKfC@mailarray.mpx.com.au>

Julia

I think you did what I did at my second last control on Day 5 of the
Scottish 6-Days, ie. withdrew your e-card before it registered. It takes one
second to register but one second is a long time. I was (correctly)
disqualified. There was no point excusing myself by telling officials that
there were many other orienteers at that control when I was there, or that
Robyn Cameron (also from Australia) actually saw me "punch" the control. The
fact is I inserted and withdrew the e-card inside the one second
registration time. Easy to do when you're hurrying with many other
orienteers around you waiting to punch. This is not a fault of the
Sport-Ident system. It's the orienteer's fault for not allowing the extra
tenths or hundredths of a second for the system to register. I verified this
later on a practice control.

By the way, I can't understand those who say the sound (beep) comes before
the red light in this system. Having punched close to 150 controls using
Sport-Ident system recently in Sweden and Scotland, I can assure everybody
the sound and light are synchronised. They come together so blind orienteers
need not fear. (There was one blind orienteer competing at O-Ringen.)

The lesson I learnt from this experience is that other orienteers can just
wait that one second while my e-card is being registered. No more the nice guy!!

Francesco Assenza
Bennelong Northside OK
Sydney Australia

From: Paul Smith <paul.smith@nlcp.co.uk>
Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 20:10:30 +0100
Subject: White Rose
Message-Id: <37CC28A6.544BFAAC@nlcp.co.uk>

Does anyone know why there were no relay prizes on Monday.
I mean come on, there were over 100 mugs given out for the individual,
surely with only 5 relay classes they could have come up with something
for the top 3 teams on each one (only 45 more prizes).
And the relay results display....surely the worst ever seen in the
history of orienteering!
Good event though (shame about the forests...).

Paul

From: Gale Teschendorf <gdt@megsinet.net>
Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 14:19:23 -0500
Subject: Re: Book on map reading?
Message-Id: <37CC2ABB.19C21DAC@megsinet.net>

"Mr. Flood's Party" wrote:

> Is there a "great" book, which might provide lots of practice examples,
> rather
> than just ranting on with a thousand words, where one crisp picture would
> suffice?

I think Mike has got it wrong, the books he suggests have one map with the
corresponding picture.  I would suggest Armchair Orienteering 1.

--
Gotta run,
Gale

+-------------+ Go Orienteering International   +-------------+ Go Canada
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|          ///| Wilmette, IL 60091 USA          |CANADA    ///|
|        /////|                                 |        /////|
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+-------------+ E-Mail: gdt@megsinet.net        +-------------+

From: "Jerry N" <JerryN@junkbtinternet.com>
Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 19:27:33 +0100
Subject: Re: electronic punching
Message-Id: <7qh70k$n5s$2@uranium.btinternet.com>

>Michael Napier <mnapier@cix.co.uk> wrote in message >
>
> JerryN@junkbtinternet.com (Jerry N) wrote:
>
> > With the benefit of hindsight, it seems that you must wait for the
> > light on the Sportident control and ignore the beep.  That does
raise
> > the question as to whether the sound should be present. If there
are
> > two or more SI-Stations at the control, then the beep sounds are
> > definitely misleading.  Does anyone know if the sound can be
turned
> > off?
> Yes it can, but I'm not sure it should even though it can be
misleading
> when punching at exactly the same moment as someone else (and I know
> from experience the uncertainty that arises).
>
> snip <

If the beeps can be misleading when there is more than one SI-Station
then they ought to be stopped.  It should be a level playing field for
everyone.  I appreciate that mistakes will be made while everybody
gets used to the system - I've made more than a few myself with pin
punches.  I've not used either electronic system, but I suspect that I
would react more quickly to a sound than a light.  At the very least
with a sound, I would be able to keep looking at my map while I'm
punching.  But if the speed I leave a control is dependent on whether
I'm lucky enough to be on my own at each control, then that random
element should be removed.

Jerry Newcombe

From: "Jerry N" <JerryN@junkbtinternet.com>
Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 19:13:08 +0100
Subject: Re: RE>Re: electronic punching
Message-Id: <7qh70j$n5s$1@uranium.btinternet.com>

> As far as I'm aware, the reason for having both signals is that the
flashing light is hard to see in bright sunlight and the beep is hard
to hear if you're near a busy road.
>
> David May

Let's hope it's not a sunny day near a road then...

This suggests to me some further design work is needed.  Perhaps a
hood for the lights and some dark matt paint?

Jerry Newcombe

From: Mitch Collinsworth <mkc@graphics.cornell.edu>
Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 18:24:54 -0400
Subject: Re: O-net Digest V8 #216
Message-Id: <199908312224.AA284758294@broccoli.graphics.cornell.edu>

Hi Linda,

>I'm more than a little disgruntled that the O-net contains messages such as 
>the following:    Lonely? 58772   
>    ONLY ADULTS 75048

So am I.


> I would assume that some sort of screening process was employed to assure 
>that any messages included pertained to orienteering, not someone peddling 
>porn and orgies.  If this is a joke it's in very poor taste.  What's 
>happening here?
>LInda Kohn

I guess you assumed wrong.  I have some rudimentary filtering in place
that does stop the bulk of the nonsense, but once in a while something
slips through the filters.  There is no human O-Net slave anywhere
chained to a computer pre-approving everything that comes across the
wire.  Everything is automated.

-Mitch

From: "Evan Custer" <evancuster@home.com>
Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 15:10:50 -0700
Subject: US Champs entry deadline tomorrow without late fee
Message-ID: <001601bef3fd$af258620$27c8aec7@wntck1.sfba.home.com>

If you are planning on entering the US Champs at Lake Tahoe-Nevada State
Park at Spooner Lake to be held Sept. 24-26, tomorrow (September 1) is the
deadline to have your entry postmarked without having to pay a late fee.
After tomorrow, the late fee of $5 per day, or $10 for the 2 days, becomes
effective.

An entry form and other information about the event can be obtained from our
web site, http://www.baoc.org.

The web site has recently been updated with more information about the Model
Event, the Start procedures and locations (there are remote starts for both
days), and a list of competitors entered so far.  Check it out.

Evan Custer
evancuster@home.com
Voice: 1-925-254-5628
Fax:   1-925-254-5961
18 Bobolink Road, Orinda, CA 94563-1706

Bay Area Orienteering Club
http://www.baoc.org
baoc@baoc.org or baoc@lists.stanford.edu
Information hot line:  408-255-8018

From: Mark Sylvester <msylvest@spin.it>
Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 23:40:02 +0200
Subject: Re: The future of O
Message-Id: <Version.32.19990831211956.01123600@mail.spin.it>

At 21:35 18/08/99 +0200, Ivan Nagy wrote: 
>
> The point is, as I understood it from some recent messages, that we
shouldn't
> promote orienteering as an elite, or even competitive sport. I think this is
> completely wrong. If we want orienteering to live on we must get kids into
> the sport. Kids, not M/W45. Sure, they are welcome too, but they should not
> be our main target. Since I myself was M15 not so long ago (I'm 21 now), I
> can tell you from my own experience that boys of that age are very
> competitive. Even the younger ones are too, (before I started orienteering I
> trained rowing, and belive me the most fun we had was when we competed
> against each other). The other thing is, like it or not, kids will allways
> have their heroes. They will allways want to be like Michael Jordan or
> Michael Schumacher or, hopefully, like Joergen Maartensson. That's what
> attracts them, havin fun and trying to be like Michael Jordan, not being
like
> that overweight friend of their father who can hardly run and who lost 10
> mins on 7th control, and, believe it or not, but when you are 14 years of
age
> you don't want to go into the woods with your mother. So I really believe
> that kids should see the competitive side of our sport. Now don't get me
> wrong, I think that "older" generation is extremely important for
> orienteering for many reasons and we should all be very greatful to
> enthusiasts who make the "whole thing" work.
>  
> Ivan (not Ivan OMap)


****************************************************************************
*****
This is one of our perennial threads and I might as well put up my usual ideas
on the subject, even if this time round it was started by a blatant "troll" by
an anonymous poster.

(A troll in this context is a fishing metaphor. Someone posts something
inflammatory just for the sake of provoking a lot of people into replying, and
gets some kind of gratification from this. Catches lots of fish. Rather
immature, and a waste of people's time!)

Anyway, I think Ivan Nagy is dead right: competition is crucial in
developing O
among kids, but I wonder if the role models are the world-class orienteers
like
Joergen Maartensson, or if more local heroes in the form of local elite
runners
or peer group leaders fill that role instead. I suspect the latter, and I
wonder what Ivan's experience is.

The other side of the coin, where heroes are concerned, is the problem of
"spectatoritis". This is a disease which grips a large proportion of the
population, and shows itself as the age of 30 approaches. Instead of
wanting to
emulate Michael Jordan on the basketball court, the victim sinks into the
sofa,
beer in hand, and watches Michael Jordan on TV. Or Michael Schumacher. Or
Michael Owen. The more hero-oriented a sport is, the more serious the problem
becomes. "Real" sports? Depends what you want.

Ivan is posting from Slovenia, where O is a young sport in the literal sense.
I've been impressed by the observation over the past 5 to 10 years that the
organisers seem to be mostly people of student age (though they too must be
pushing 30 by now!). Women's categories above D35 are not usually found. The
men get up to H45, for that fat friend of his father ;).

So yes, I guess it's not cool to run in the same competition as your mother
when you're 14. I absolutely agree. The agony of adolescence! Is the problem
that too many fat uncles and mothers want to run around with maps, thereby
putting off the kids? I love it!

Ivan: hope you can come to our Regional Championships (classic distance) at
Repen (Zgonik map) on 10th October. Just 45 minutes on the motorway from
Ljubljana!

Mark


Mark Sylvester
United World College of the Adriatic
34013 Duino TS
Italy.
msylvest@spin.it
tel: +39 040 3739 255

From: David Rosen <david_rosen@compuserve.com>
Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 16:08:58 -0400
Subject: Re 10%
Message-ID: <199908311609_MC2-830D-A5E5@compuserve.com>

I agree with John. 
There should be no need for abitrary weighting factors
if a ranking calculation properly measures the quality
of a runner's result. The new IOF Ranking formula gets as 
close as possible to this ideal. The BOF Ranking system
is moving to the same method for 2000.

David Rosen
>
10%

I struggle to see what the justification is for the 10% weighting for
ranking
list calculation when taking part in a National Event.

John Hawkins<

From: mikeminium@aol.com (Mikeminium)
Date: 31 Aug 1999 14:10:34 GMT
Subject: Re: Book on map reading?
Message-Id: <19990831101034.00439.00002486@ng-da1.aol.com>

<mrfloodsparty@prodigy.net> asks about books about orienteering and clubs in
the Nashville, TN, USA area:

    Here are a couple suggestions:  "Orienteering the skills of the Game" by
Carol McNeill and "Be an Expert With Map and Compass" by Bjorn Kjellstrom.  You
can order them through orienteering equipment vendors.  There are a several
vendors who can be reached through links from the US Orienteering Federation
home page:  http://www.us.orienteering.org
    By the way, there is an orienteering club in Nashville.  It is new...
started less than a year ago, and I'm not sure how active they are yet...
contact Michael Bourg (texoma@aol.com) for information, or try the links from
the US O' Fed web page which should have his mail address and telephone number
as well as e-mail.
    Let me know if I can help with any further questions.

Mike Minium
mikeminium@aol.com
V P Program Development
U S Orienteering Federation

From: John Kewley <kewley@cscs.ch>
Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 15:13:36 +0200
Subject: Re: Phoenix Long O
Message-Id: <37CBD500.4446183@cscs.ch>

Andrew Nicoll wrote:
> 
> Please note that the start lists for the Phoenix Long O now contain
> sex and age information so that ladies and veterans can more easily
> check on the competition.

Please DO NOT post messages to this newsgroup which point to pages
which 
"now contain sex ... information ..."
in them

there are enough of these off-topic posts already!

;-)

-- 
John M. Kewley                              Tel: +41 (0) 91 610 8351
Senior Research Scientist                   Fax: +41 (0) 91 610 8282
Centro Svizzero di Calcolo Scientifico      mailto:kewley@cscs.ch
via Cantonale, CH-6928 Manno, Switzerland   http://www.cscs.ch/~kewley/

From: Rick Lavine <lavine@math.rochester.edu>
Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 12:22:22 -0400
Subject: Re: Nor-Am Ski-O
Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19990831162222.008b6ce4@mail.math.rochester.edu>

>From: James Waddington <blueleaf@sympatico.ca>
>Date: Sun, 29 Aug 1999 19:30:34 GMT
>Subject: 1999-2000 Nor-Am Ski-'O'
>
>Is there a list of 1999-2000 Nor-Am Ski-O events
>available on the web yet?  Will there be nay major events
>this winter? There was talk about a US vs Canada relay at
>one time as well. Any plans?
>
>Cheers,
>Mike Waddington
>
It appears there will be a meet designated as "US team trials". Also, a
major driving force in northeastern US ski-o is the NYS Empire State Games,
open to all on exhibition basis. But the date for this is still not set, as
far as I know.It may be moved from its traditional end of February time, and
this would necessitate changes in the local meets that serve as qualifiers.
By the way, qualifiers may now be held out of state; why not in Ontario?

Rick Lavine

From: andrew_nicoll@usa.net (Andrew Nicoll)
Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 09:41:45 GMT
Subject: Phoenix Long O
Message-Id: <37cba1f3.6615153@news>

Please note that the start lists for the Phoenix Long O now contain
sex and age information so that ladies and veterans can more easily
check on the competition.

The site is at
http://www.geocities.com/Colosseum/Track/6894/phoen99.html

Andrew Nicoll, NATO

From: gja@feynman.ph.ed.ac.uk (Graeme Ackland)
Date: 31 Aug 1999 09:03:38 GMT
Subject: Re: 10%  (a contrary view on teh ranking list)
Message-Id: <7qg5pa$ego$1@scotsman.ed.ac.uk>

John Hawkins wrote:



|> I struggle to see what the justification is for the 10% weighting for ranking
|> list calculation when taking part in a National Event.
|> 
|> To me the 10% devalues a ranking list attempting to reasonably (or as
|> reasonably as possible given that ranking lists are never perfect...) rank one
|> orienteer against another.   This means that some orienteers, due to the fact
|> that they are prepared to travel the length and bredth of the country have a
|> relatively high figure, whereas those who don't travel have a low figure.
|> 
|> Surely the list should be trying to measure relative ability and not
|> preparedness(?) to travel  - have I got this entirely wrong?

Yes, I think you have.  The ranking lists are never going to be very accurate,
but the people most interested in them have always (it seems to me) been 
relative newcomers who are moving up the list each time.  So I think the
*main practical use* of the ranking list is to encourage this group of people to
go orienteering.

Once you accept that, its obvious there should be some element of `attendance
prize' in the scoring.


                        Graeme

PS. There is another historical argument about relative strength/seriousness 
of field, but I'll leave that for the statisticians.

From: "Ivan Nagy" <ivan.nagy@kiss.uni-lj.si>
Date: Wed, 18 Aug 1999 21:35:08 +0200
Subject: The future of O
Message-ID: <000f01bee9b0$c96f8f00$7f6202c1@kiss.uni-lj.si.kiss.uni-lj.si>

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The point is, as I understood it from some recent messages, that we =
shouldn't promote orienteering as an elite, or even competitive sport. I =
think this is completely wrong. If we want orienteering to live on we =
must get kids into the sport. Kids, not M/W45. Sure, they are welcome =
too, but they should not be our main target. Since I myself was M15 not =
so long ago (I'm 21 now), I can tell you from my own experience that =
boys of that age are very competitive. Even the younger ones are too, =
(before I started orienteering I trained rowing, and belive me the most =
fun we had was when we competed against each other). The other thing is, =
like it or not, kids will allways have their heroes. They will allways =
want to be like Michael Jordan or Michael Schumacher or, hopefully, like =
Joergen Maartensson. That's what attracts them, havin fun and trying to =
be like Michael Jordan, not being like that overweight friend of their =
father who can hardly run and who lost 10 mins on 7th control, and, =
believe it or not, but when you are 14 years of age you don't want to go =
into the woods with your mother. So I really believe that kids should =
see the competitive side of our sport. Now don't get me wrong, I think =
that "older" generation is extremely important for orienteering for many =
reasons and we should all be very greatful to enthusiasts who make the =
"whole thing" work.

Ivan (not Ivan OMap)

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<DIV><FONT size=3D2>The point is, as I understood it from some recent =
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that we shouldn't promote orienteering as an elite, or even competitive =
sport. I=20
think this is completely wrong. If we want orienteering to live on we =
must get=20
kids into the sport. Kids, not M/W45. Sure, they are welcome too, but =
they=20
should not be our main target. Since I myself was M15 not so long ago =
(I'm 21=20
now), I can tell you from my own experience that boys of that age are =
very=20
competitive. Even the younger ones are too, (before I started =
orienteering I=20
trained rowing, and belive me the most fun we had was when we competed =
against=20
each other). The other thing is, like it or not, kids will allways have =
their=20
heroes. They will allways want to be like Michael Jordan or Michael =
Schumacher=20
or, hopefully, like Joergen Maartensson. That's what attracts them, =
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From: Piers Newbery <piers.newbery@materials.oxford.ac.uk>
Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 13:48:51 +0100 (BST)
Subject: Re: 10%
Message-ID: <Pine.OSF.3.95.990831134237.13189B-100000@ermine.ox.ac.uk>

It is a National ranking list, so National events should given a higher
status than more local Badge events.

Piers


On 30 Aug 1999, Nreentrant wrote:

> UK Orienteering
> 
> I struggle to see what the justification is for the 10% weighting for ranking
> list calculation when taking part in a National Event.
> 
> To me the 10% devalues a ranking list attempting to reasonably (or as
> reasonably as possible given that ranking lists are never perfect...) rank one
> orienteer against another.   This means that some orienteers, due to the fact
> that they are prepared to travel the length and bredth of the country have a
> relatively high figure, whereas those who don't travel have a low figure.
> 
> Surely the list should be trying to measure relative ability and not
> preparedness(?) to travel  - have I got this entirely wrong?
> 
> John Hawkins
> 

From: David May <djm@stpauls.richmond.sch.uk>
Date: 31 Aug 99 12:09:17 +0100
Subject: RE>Re: electronic punching
Message-ID: <990831.120917@stpauls.richmond.sch.uk>

Jerry N wrote:

>With the benefit of hindsight, it seems that you must wait for the
>light on the Sportident control and ignore the beep.  That does raise
>the question as to whether the sound should be present. If there are
>two or more SI-Stations at the control, then the beep sounds are
>definitely misleading.  Does anyone know if the sound can be turned
>off?

As far as I'm aware, the reason for having both signals is that the flashing light is hard to see in bright sunlight and the beep is hard to hear if you're near a busy road.

David May

From: mnapier@cix.co.uk (Michael Napier)
Date: 31 Aug 1999 07:40:46 GMT
Subject: Re: electronic punching
Message-Id: <memo.19990831084334.21997A@mnapier.compulink.co.uk>

In article <7qei6b$nsf$1@uranium.btinternet.com>,
JerryN@junkbtinternet.com (Jerry N) wrote:

> With the benefit of hindsight, it seems that you must wait for the
> light on the Sportident control and ignore the beep.  That does raise
> the question as to whether the sound should be present. If there are
> two or more SI-Stations at the control, then the beep sounds are
> definitely misleading.  Does anyone know if the sound can be turned
> off?
Yes it can, but I'm not sure it should even though it can be misleading
when punching at exactly the same moment as someone else (and I know
from experience the uncertainty that arises).

I am trying to perfect a punching technique that essentially makes the
feedback unnecessary, in just the same way that I had developed a
punching technique with pin punches that ensured an accurate and clear
punch without having to check the card at every control.

Once people have got used to the system, I think missed SportIdent
punches will be less than the number of disqualifications that ever
resulted from poorly punched conventional cards.

Sadly, we only learn from our mistakes so there will be a number of
disappointments in the early days.

Michael Napier

From: David May <djm@stpauls.richmond.sch.uk>
Date: 31 Aug 99 12:05:09 +0100
Subject: RE>10%
Message-ID: <990831.120509@stpauls.richmond.sch.uk>

It's fairly straightforward. There are two main reasons for the loading:-

1) The top competitors take National Events more seriously than Badge Events (on the whole) and are therefore less likely to be using NEs just for training purposes.

2) There are usually more competitors at NEs than at Badge Events and thus the race data obtained from NEs are statistically more significant. The 10% loading at NEs thus minimises the effects of "freak" results from Badge Events.

Hope this makes sense,

David May

--------------------------------------
Date: 31/8/99 9:02 am
To: David May
From: Nreentrant
UK Orienteering

I struggle to see what the justification is for the 10% weighting for ranking
list calculation when taking part in a National Event.

To me the 10% devalues a ranking list attempting to reasonably (or as
reasonably as possible given that ranking lists are never perfect...) rank one
orienteer against another.   This means that some orienteers, due to the fact
that they are prepared to travel the length and bredth of the country have a
relatively high figure, whereas those who don't travel have a low figure.

Surely the list should be trying to measure relative ability and not
preparedness(?) to travel  - have I got this entirely wrong?

John Hawkins

From: "Per Samuelsson" <per.samuelsson@ki.ericsson.se>
Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 08:08:52 +0200
Subject: Re: electronic punching
Message-Id: <7qfqb8$3sm@newstoo.ericsson.se>

Anders B. Xksenholt wrote in message <37CAEDE5.928F4F7B@skien.online.no>...
>julia minty wrote:
>>
>> Hello
>> My name is Julia Minty. I recently competed for Australia in the Junior
>> World Champs. At JWOC the Sport Ident system was used.
>
>[snip.. about DSQ in JWOC]
>
>> How can this sort of thing be overcome?
>
>With an electronic punching system that "automaticly" makes a physical
>backup (like the EMIT-system) and which doesn't have flashing lights and
>noise sounds which may confuses many runners more than they help them
>(especially if the light and sound suddenly stop working!).


There have been less disqualifications from dubious punches with SportIdent
than
ordinary with punches. And the way the EMIT system has been working here in
Sweden
it is not an alternative. Devices with batteries that stop working, there
are no confirmation
that the punch is ok, and the fact that the backup sticker regularly comes
off makes me
scared to use it.

    - Per -

From: "Mr. Flood's Party" <mrfloodsparty@prodigy.net>
Date: Mon, 30 Aug 1999 20:31:26 -0000
Subject: Book on map reading?
Message-Id: <7qfbce$1j2s$1@newssvr03-int.news.prodigy.com>

Hello, I thought this might be a good place to ask. I understand, very
basically, about contour intervals, and the basics of map reading. However,
for the life of me, I cannot, I like to say, "raise" these mountains and
hills up from that flat paper, and construct a proper vision in my mind.
When I think the slope is this way, it inevitably goes the other way. Is
there a "great" book, which might provide lots of practice examples, rather
than just ranting on with a thousand words, where one crisp picture would
suffice? :-) You'll have to forgive me, but, if someone put a gun to my
head, and said to me, where can I go to learn orienteering, I would say my
final prayers. There is no orienteering in my "universe, Nashville,
Tennessee. USA

Thanks to anyone who cares to answer.

CTM

From: orientear@aol.com (Orientear)
Date: 31 Aug 1999 01:32:18 GMT
Subject: Re: The future of various things
Message-Id: <19990830213218.05992.00002586@ng-fm1.aol.com>

Trainspotting:  One of the really bad things that can happen at a formal
wedding.

From: orientear@aol.com (Orientear)
Date: 31 Aug 1999 01:30:10 GMT
Subject: Re: The future of O
Message-Id: <19990830213010.05992.00002584@ng-fm1.aol.com>

Recently, the organizers of the Pikes Peak Marathon refused to offer appearance
money for any of the acknowledged sky marathon superstars.  The superstars, in
protest, refused to run.  The race, which has a participant limit of 1500 on
each day (or thereabouts) was still filled by people who know the race is a
great challenge.

One of American Orienteering's 'Grand Masters Women', Sharon Crawford and
orienteering in general, received a full page of coverage from the Denver Post
this month.  The Laramie Wyoming local news and the Casper Wyoming New each ahd
coverage of the Rocky Mountain 1000 day, whose euphemistic name implies that
there is more orienteering than most of us care to indulge in.  This coverage,
by the way, is reported to have been done in respose to some prodding by the
same Liz Kotowski to whose initial post I am replying.  As a result of that
coverage, several new faces showed up at RMOC's most recent meet.  The faces
were attached to runners' bodies.    Granted, the runners were mostly middle
aged.  

Runners might just be categorized into two groups:  1The ones who are able to
drun and make a living at it; and 2, the ones whose appreciation of the purity
of the sport will forever keep them out of the limelight.  If Orienteering
"catches on" ever in the United States, it will forever change the sport around
the world.  I doubt any of us are really ready for that to happen.  It is a
nice dream, though.

Oslo