From: mapworks@cableinet.co.uk (Steve Killingbeck)
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 21:21:54 +0100
Subject: Re: Sand Dune Mapping
Message-Id: <mapworks-2710992121540001@usr72-sta.cableinet.co.uk>
In article <7v0f1i$8hp$1@nnrp1.deja.com>, simonbeck6219@my-deja.com wrote:
> Yes, and I also have memories of telling NGOC their basemap (the old O-
> map) wasn't good enough to use as base, it was necessary to start again
> at the same hourly rate as the adjactent area of similar terrain I had
> recently mapped for BOK entirely successfully. NGOC responded by
> asserting the area wasn't good enough to justify the expenditure,
> wasn't good enough for a badge event and asked for a cheap quick
> version.
>
> Yes it was silly of me to allow them to persuade me to go against my
> own judgement, and I can assure NGOC I regret taking on the contract as
> much as they regret hiring me in the first place, if anyone reading
> this is thinking me getting me in to do a map that involves using an
> existing O-map as the base, then please give the job to someone else,
> unless the base map is one of my own maps, congrate to CROC and their
> 1989 map of Happy Valley, the only existing O-map I've ever used as
> base where it's proved accurate enough to use.
>
> Simon Beck
Unfortunately Simon you also missed out half the paths as well!!!
Steve Killingbeck (NGOC)
From: "Clive Street" <Clive.Street@btinternet.com>
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 18:20:44 +0100
Subject: Re: OK Nuts trophy
Message-Id: <7v7d9a$hj2$1@plutonium.btinternet.com>
Graeme
I can only comment about the quality of the Rowney map and overprint which
was IMHO far superior to that used at the recent Caddihoe Chase(although no
doubt some would say that's not saying much).
PS I believe we should all try a bit harder to "backslap" if it's deserved.
I hope this Newsgroup is not just for moans, although sometimes it seems to
read
that way......
New innovations need encouragement and support, and yes constructive
criticism too, but let's not forget the first two.
Clive S
Graeme Ackland wrote in message <7v2224$27f$1@scotsman.ed.ac.uk>...
>
>
>Clive Street and Fred Northrop indulge in some mutual backslapping:
>
>Graeme moans:
>
> I don't know if your maps are similar to those we got at the
>`Thetford Thrash' but I would caution that they weren't really up to
>it. Well, to be fair they were fine for the level of detail in those
>areas, but as we've seen at the last couple of national events when
>maps get detailed it is very easy to produce home-printed maps on which
>the detail cannot be read. It is disappointing to have to adopt a 'run
>to the middle of the circle and look for the feature' strategy whenever
>the map gets detailed.
>
> No doubt laserprints and photocopies are the future: I'm just
>a little worried about going through a period of substandard maps before
>we get there.
>
> How do you avoid getting all the maps soaked if they are not
>presealed in individual bags? (I won't accept `By not living in Scotland'
>as an adequate answer :-).
>
> Graeme
From: Eric Smith <ensmith@ccmr.cornell.edu>
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 17:36:30 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Re: Late entry fees
Message-Id: <199910272136.RAA36646@hannah.msc.cornell.edu>
Dear Mr. Peck,
(sorry to pester the whole list, but when people can't
have the courtesy to supply a real e-mail address....)
It's actually more the extra nuisance that is being paid for, not the
extra cost of the maps. At about 10p as an upper estimate for the
marginal cost of extra maps, your #174 would pay for about 1740 maps,
perhaps an overgenerous guess on late entries (at least in this
country, where a good total turnout is around 300-500 entries). We
usually overprint about 10-20 extra copies per course more than we
have entered a week in advance, which typically "wastes" about 200
maps.
A big advantage of pre-registration for us is that on rainy days (and
we have lots of them), people actually show up to orienteer. For our
bigger meets, we have an entry deadline typically two weeks in advance
of the race to give us an idea of numbers, with a $5/day penalty for
later registration and a $10/day penalty for day-of registration. The
$5/day doesn't seem to be much of a deterent to late registration--at
our last "A"-meet about 1/3 of the participants apparently couldn't
make up their minds that far in advance. However, it did seem that
twice this penalty for day-of registration seemed to keep most people
giving us at least _some_ advance notice. Often it's as much of a
nuisance fitting in start times on the more heavily occupied courses
as providing maps. For our local events where everything is a bit
more low-key, and nobody is going to get too exercised about two
hot-shot runners from the same club inadvertently getting sent out on
adjacent time slots or such nonsense, we're more relaxed. We often use
master maps, but generally don't have people do the copying on time.
We're much more concerned about people (particularly beginners)
getting totally frustrated by circling the wrong feature in haste than
about experienced orienteers ruining part of the fun of their run by
doing an in-depth detailed analysis of their route before starting!
Eric Smith
>
> From: you@somehost.somedomain (speck)
> Date: 26 Oct 1999 07:50:23 GMT
> Subject: Re: How many Day-of-Entry maps to print
> >
> Interesting logic. We must print extra maps but must recover
> cost, therefore we double eod. I would expect the result of that
> would be even less eod and so costs aren't recovered.... so threble
> eod... so less eod ... until the single poor eod ends up with
> a bill for #174.00.....
>
> This attitude by some in the sport against eod does make us seem very
> bureaucratic and unfriendly.... is its suprising we can't
> attract and retain newcomers to the sport. We seem to be chasing
> more and more technology and organisation and loosing sight of
> the fact that Orienteering at its best is essentially about having
> as good a map and course as the available area can allow and letting
> as many people as possible have an interesting run on a Sunday
> morning.
>
> Simon P
>
>
> PS If anyone want's this I've planned an event just north of Ipswich
> (Shrubland estate, SP N & S from A14, entry by Timberyard on old A140)
> on Sunday which has (a) only eod
> (b) master maps (and 2nd master maps on 2 courses)
> (c) courses from 2km to 9.9 km (white to brown)
> (d) brand new maps (survey to 30/9/99)
> (e) entry fee of only #2.50 /#1.00
> (f) me praying for a dry day to make it more pleasant
>
From: "Duncan Taylor" <Duncan@seaville.freeserve.co.uk>
Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 22:19:11 +0100
Subject: Club membership database
Message-Id: <7v56fp$h9b$1@news5.svr.pol.co.uk>
Does anybody have, already written, a good club membership database in MS
Access which they are prepared to share with us?
Duncan Taylor, WCOC.
duncan@seaville.freeserve.co.uk
From: "Roy Denney" <roy@denneyrj.freeserve.co.uk>
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 20:50:20 +0100
Subject: new areas / mike whittaker
Message-ID: <005001bf20b6$fa30c4a0$3d14883e@roysbox>
As Chairman of LEI I can assure you that weeks of man hours have been spent
researching new areas and trying to negotiate new access.
Most private landowners see little to gain by allowing access and when
prepared to consider it we are usually tied up with restrictions and face
often prohibitive charges.
We have numerous areas we are working on at present but many of them have
shooting tenants and we could only go in during a few months of the year and
as these are the same at each site we can either try to organise to use one
of them every week for a few weeks and then pack up for a while or only use
each of them every 3 years or so which means maps are dated before a second
event can be staged on it.
Organisations like the Woodland Trust are supportive of the sport as are the
new National Forest Company but many wildlife and nature trusts see us as a
threat.
Forest Enterprise are supportive but are often tied into existing leases to
other users which cannot be renegotiated to allow us access until they run
their course.
As a Club we are in the midst of a major mapping programme and staged 11
events this year on new maps many of which were completely new areas or
contained new extensions. We are currently working on a further 7 of which 2
are comfortably large enough to stage C4 events and have never been used
before.
Many hands are fully employed but if you know any areas we may not have
considered in Rutland, Leicestershire or North Northamptonshire we will be
delighted to put it on the list and get round to it as soon as possible.
RJD
From: Mitch Collinsworth <mkc@graphics.cornell.edu>
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 12:01:32 -0400
Subject: [ADMIN] please read
Message-Id: <199910271601.MAA05002@bach.Graphics.Cornell.EDU>
In regard to the O-Net spam filters I've mentioned a few times before:
Please do not send messages to the O-Net that include a lengthy list
of addressees in the To: or cc: header. There have been several of
these recently, which is what motivated this note. Long header fields
are one of the things that trip the spam filters. When this happens
your message goes into the may-be-spam box where I have to examine it,
discover it's not spam, edit down the long header(s), and re-post it to
the O-Net. You probably don't appreciate the delay and I certainly
don't care for the extra work. If you send a separate copy of your
message to the O-Net from the copy you send to lots-of-people, the
O-Net copy will go through immediately and we'll both be happier.
-Mitch
From: Barbara Junghans <B.Junghans@unsw.edu.au>
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 04:46:19 +1000
Subject: 1999 Sydney Metropolitan League Finals
Message-Id: <l03102801b43ba77823a4@[138.26.158.191]>
Finals results and final team rankings for 1999 now available at
www.gateway.com.au/metro.htm
Frank Assenza
Bennelong Northside OC
Sydney Australia
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Barbara M Junghans BOptom GradDipHEd PhD FAAO
Senior Lecturer
School of Optometry
UNSW Sydney 2052 Australia
Phone (W)(61 2) 9385 4237 (H) (61 2) 9450 2027
Fax (61 2) 9313 8604
Email B.Junghans@unsw.edu.au
Home Page www.optom.unsw.edu.au
Always think +ve
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
From: "Julie Calder" <jcalder@mail.fairfax.com.au>
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 18:44:18 +1000
Subject: Mountain Bike O - interested ?
Message-ID: <19991027084558.28906.qmail@fairfax.com.au>
Dear all
Traditional O season over, summer series not quite here, wondering what to
do? How about attending the NSW Mountain Biking Championships (which also
happens to be the first NSW Mountain Bike race for the year I think, so no
previous experience is necessary). No pre entry required and a bargain $8
to participate.
It's on Saturday week - 6 November at Penrose and if you're really keen the
ACT Mountain Bike Champs is on the next day.
See full details below:
6 November 1999 (Sat) Penrose
NSW MTBO Championships
Venue Turn E off the Hume Highway at the Penrose Forest rest area 2km past
the Exeter Service Centre (McDonalds) and follow Osigns to assembly. This
turnoff is 9km past Paddys River if coming from Canberra.
Time Starts from 12-00noon to 2-00pm
Courses course 1 about 24km M19-34
course 2 about 18km M35-49, M-18, W19-34
course 3 about 12km M50+, W35-49, W-18
course 4 about 8km W50+
Non Championship competitors and groups may enter any course except course 1
Map "Penrose State Forest", 1:25000, 1997
Facilities toilets, water
Entry Fees $8 (all courses are enter on day)
Special Rules 1 Helmets are compulsory
2 All controls will be on tracks and bikes may not be taken off tracks
Organiser Neil Prosser 9736 9760w 9436 2075h nprosser@ppk.com.au next week
or this week contact Julie on 9282 1650w 94362075h
From: "Julie Calder" <jcalder@mail.fairfax.com.au>
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 18:29:18 +1000
Subject: Re: OANSW Wombie Awards
Message-ID: <19991027083148.27309.qmail@fairfax.com.au>
From: "General Mail" <wildcat@scottishotours.sol.co.uk>
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 08:51:57 +0100
Subject: Re: As-You-Go-O
Message-ID: <002201bf2053$22578a40$8de9b094@orienteering>
A good idea but does detract from some of the important parts of
orienteering..........planning ahead, control flow etc.
Gross
----- Original Message -----
From: Mike Brooks <orienteer@hamptonroads.com>
To: <orienteering@Graphics.Cornell.EDU>
Sent: Wednesday, October 27, 1999 8:16 AM
Subject: As-You-Go-O
> >Another way to deal with the problem of an event jammed into a tiny area
> >is "As-You-Go-O", which was purportedly invented by Aims Coney and has
> >been used only once (to my knowledge). Before the start, you copy all of
> >the circles onto your map, with control codes. You are also given
> >control descriptions with codes, but column A is blank (and the codes
> >should probably be some nice simple sequence). But there are no
> >connecting lines between the control circles on the map. At the start,
> >you're told which control to go to first, and then at each control,
> >you're told which control to go to next.
>
> This format has now been used twice. Quantico Orienteering Club held
an
> event at Lake Accotink, VA this past Sunday with this format. Sid Sachs
set the
> courses.
>
> Mike Brooks
> orienteer@hamptonroads.com
>
>
>
>
From: Mike.Whittaker@astrazeneca.com
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 10:09:38 +0200
Subject: RE: trail or fell shoes?
Message-Id: <E18DB914BB72D011A5330000F82284800467A54D@gb-chw-mail1.charnwood.gb.astra.com>
> Fell shoes tend to be of
narrower construction than O shoes...
Exactly. The narrower the better in the good close fit stakes. And I have
noted that most Orienteers I've seen (in the Midlands albeit) do wear
Walshes. Perhaps we just have narrower feet here! Though I take and
reinforce your comment that O shoes do have tougher uppers to withstand
undergrowth esp. the pointy bits. Have Walsh considered an O version that
incorporates this feature? And while I'm on the subject can they please
stop using that fluffy lining that (esp. under the tongue) attracts for ever
all manner of debris! And maybe improve the QC on the rear vertical heel
seam, one pair more or less annihilated last season for me. A warning to
would-be Walsh purchases, check that seam for flatness!
Mike Whittaker
> _______________________________________________________
> mike.whittaker@astrazeneca.com
>
-----Original Message-----
From: General Mail [mailto:wildcat@scottishotours.sol.co.uk]
Sent: 26 October 1999 12:43
To: Whittaker Mike; tim@oakhanger.demon.co.uk;
Orienteering@Graphics.Cornell.EDU
Subject: Re: trail or fell shoes?
> little mite! Most Fell runners & orienteers in Britain prefer Walshes
This is not really an accurate statement! Most fell runners prefer Walshes
(or similar) I think if you look at orienteers most will be wearing O shoes.
Fell running and orienteering are two very different sports and require very
different equipment. There is a big difference in the construction of fell &
O shoes. One example being the uppers on O shoes - they are required to
withstand all the crud on the forest floor! Fell shoes tend to be of
narrower construction than O shoes as well. I'm sure some of the equipment
retailers out there could add to the discussion!
Gross
From: "Mike Brooks" <orienteer@hamptonroads.com>
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 03:16:07 -0400
Subject: As-You-Go-O
Message-Id: <199910270716.DAA02060@musone.chek.com>
>Another way to deal with the problem of an event jammed into a tiny area
>is "As-You-Go-O", which was purportedly invented by Aims Coney and has
>been used only once (to my knowledge). Before the start, you copy all of
>the circles onto your map, with control codes. You are also given
>control descriptions with codes, but column A is blank (and the codes
>should probably be some nice simple sequence). But there are no
>connecting lines between the control circles on the map. At the start,
>you're told which control to go to first, and then at each control,
>you're told which control to go to next.
This format has now been used twice. Quantico Orienteering Club held an
event at Lake Accotink, VA this past Sunday with this format. Sid Sachs set the
courses.
Mike Brooks
orienteer@hamptonroads.com